Lucifer Rising - an end or beginning? May 16, 2009 02:49PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 268 Status: "Oops. That leprechaun punched me real hard." |
Re: Lucifer Rising - an end or beginning? May 17, 2009 06:52AM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,070 Status: "I punched that damn leprechaun back." |
Re: Lucifer Rising - an end or beginning? May 19, 2009 12:30AM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 506 Status: |
Now that's an interesting theory I hadn't thought of. Although, most of the past seasons all got tossed out on their proverbial behinds this season, so it's hard to say. Manipulating Sam in one way or another (though he apparently didn't know how he was going to do it yet) could have been part of Kripke's evil genius plot all along.Quote
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The Sting
When Sam left for college, he was defiant - proving to himself that he could do something other than the family business but it was more than that too. I think to some extent even then he was being guided by the YED and his minions, feeding his drive to be something other than a hunter - to be something other than part of the Winchester family. Who knows what small influences were exerted on him thruout his childhood to culminate in to that final argument with John where he was told, if you walk out that door, dont ever come back.
And then to hear those words again.....
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We saw changes in Sam throut the last 4 years - sometmes he was almost cocky - but still his bond with Dean was strong - until that is Ruby. Ruby worked Sam, feeding his ego(?) that he was better, stronger and smarter than Dean - inserting a splinter into their relationship. That was the challenge - to break their relationship. Afterall, it wasnt that his father had gone missing that made him come back in to the business, it was Dean. Dean who he had looked up to all his life was asking for his help, was admitting he needed Sam. Their relationship was always the greatest weapon working against the evil plan to corrupt Sam. As long as that was in place, their plans were useless. I think Meg was actually their first attempt. He was almost ready to run off with her afterall but his brotherly love for Dean was still strong and she was too sadistic....they had to take a different tact - enter Ruby. Playing on his emotional needs, his synpathies and that ongoing battle within himself that he was more than a hunter...convincing him she was on their - his - side. And the more Dean argued that she wasnt what she seemed the more Sam sided with Ruby.
Whispers in the dark, hallucinations, distorted phone messages - Come on Sam! Deep down you knew Dean would never do or say those things...not ot you! Dean gave his soul for you! He protected you!
But it was too much....and when Sam was close to changing his mind...close to thinking maybe Dean was right, Ruby was there, sowing her seeds of doubt and distrust.
poor Sam.....
Well...there were parts of this I loved and parts I hated. Definitely - the highlight [maybe the highlight of the last four years] for me was Dean bursting thru those doors, Ruby so smugly saying you are too late and Dean saying I dont care then rammin that blade in to her!! And Sam.....holding Ruby finally knowing Dean was right, looking like he was 8 again, searching Deans face for some glimmer of forgiveness.
on a side note, Hello? The prophet ordering hkers for his last night - very funny.
*sigh* I didnt expect this end.....I dont know, I may need to watch this one again. As it stands, I feel like unsatisfied with how this finale played out. The angels totally sucked and I have been a big fan of Castiel..... I think this was a disappointing episode with the exception of Dean - he seems to be the strong cocky character I fell for from day one.... All right ...I am watching this again...right now..lol
I'm not waiting to see if Dean will forgive Sam because, to me, he already has. The minute he made that phone call and left that message, all was forgiven, if not put entirely right yet. I know Sam didn't get the message, but Dean forgave him, nonetheless. The brothers are together again, Dean is trying to protect Sam and get him out of there, and our young, baby-brother Sam is holding onto his big brother for dear life (and Blue, it wasn't "Wait, he's coming" it was "Dean... he's coming." So I don't believe Sam was waiting in anticipation for Lucifer, I think he was fearful of it, and looking to his older brother for support, too scared and too weak to move.)Quote
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I am not sure what the clifhanger is here...is it that Lucifer is about to leave hell and reign havoc on Earth or is it waiting to find out if Dean will forgive Sam .... I guess we have to wait and see.
Re: Lucifer Rising - an end or beginning? May 19, 2009 06:36PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 268 Status: "Oops. That leprechaun punched me real hard." |
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Mattie
Sorry to disagree with a lot of your points here And sorry you didn't enjoy the epi as much. For me it was one of the best all season, and the ONLY season 4 mytharc story I enjoyed. I give it a 20 out of 10, and will, for now, overlook the glaring plot hole, just because I enjoyed the epi so much.Quote
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No! Dont say sorry....we saw it two different ways...i enjoyed the entire season honestly - thought it was hands down better than season three.....
Sam - Sam has been getting weaker with every episode and I'll reiterate a line that may be getting old, but still true. He had become an addict in every sense of the word, hallucinations, delusions of grandeur, jonesing for his next fix and all. Even allowing Ruby to kill the girl - Ruby convinced him that was the only way he could get enough "juice" and a junkie doesn't look for reasons not to do it, they buy any reason someone sells them TO get their next hit... irregardless of what it takes.Quote
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I dont think we disagree here....my thoughts were that Sam didnt so much have demon blood in him as he was "given" the taste of it as a baby... he sort of became a crack baby. If it was an afterschool special, it would have been Sam Whinchester: Portrait of a Demonbloodaholic
Dean - Ohhhhh, Dean, Dean, Dean.
Uh, yeah, that about covers it.Quote
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I concur.
Bobby - Only Bobby could talk to Dean that way. And though I hated what he said about the man who gave his life for his sons, telling Dean, "You're a better man than your father ever was." is the one thing that got through to him. I'd heard spoiler-rumors from Jim Beaver that he wouldn't be back next season, and other spoiler-rumors that Rufus would make another appearance (I'm guessing in more than the form of a phone call), so it has me a bit curious if there was a Bobby scene that ended up on the cutting room floor? Regardless, I'm just happy that my Bobby survived!Quote
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That was a powerful moment....Bobby has always been the boys lifeline tho - I think thats why so many people love him. The voice of reason, even tho he had his own skeletons in the closet to deal with - he was always there to say what needed to be said when emotions ran hot and in then end, those gorgeous hunks of men, Dean and Sam, shrunk down to 8 year olds looking at him wide eyed realizing what he said was all that mattered - how many times did he remind them they were brothers?
Castiel - I must admit, I'm a little surprised in your disappointment in him this time. This is the FIRST time the character has impressed me all season long. He finally stepped up and grew a pair himself. I wouldn't call what he's done in other epis, looking the other way, answering questions by NOT answering questions, exactly stepping up to the plate. And I firmly believe he knew the whole "we want this apocalypse as much as the demons do" idea from the get-go. First with the vague "you have to stop it" before sending Dean back in time; then it's "you have to stop Sam"; then "you're the one who can stop the apocalypse." COME ON! Just how dense is he that he would follow the company line and NOT catch onto what's going on??? Or maybe I'm giving him more credit even now than is due and he really was that frellin' stupid from the start.Quote
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I was disappointed because I liked Castiel so much. I liked it that he liked Dean...yes I am talking earlier episodes here and he did step up which I was excited about but - and this is me- I fantasized him doing the right thing much earlier...thats just how I wanted it thats all. I suspect you are right and he will be the fourth player next season to Dean, Sam and Bobby - and I am ok with that.
Ruby - Now there's the real disappointment. Genevieve Cortese hasn't bothered me too much with her performances but this one was pretty bad. Her "I am awesome!" speech was over the top lame. But I'm glad they finally made her full-on evil before ganking her. Which leads me to the best part of the entire episode... BOTH brothers working together to take her out.
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Again ! Loved it!
I'm not waiting to see if Dean will forgive Sam because, to me, he already has. The minute he made that phone call and left that message, all was forgiven, if not put entirely right yet. I know Sam didn't get the message, but Dean forgave him, nonetheless. The brothers are together again, Dean is trying to protect Sam and get him out of there, and our young, baby-brother Sam is holding onto his big brother for dear life (and Blue, it wasn't "Wait, he's coming" it was "Dean... he's coming." So I don't believe Sam was waiting in anticipation for Lucifer, I think he was fearful of it, and looking to his older brother for support, too scared and too weak to move.)Quote
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I think that was Blues comment about the waiting for Lucifer thing....I could tell immediately Sam had awakened and was in fact our Sam again. Yes...I know the phone call....but those are words and while he meant them there will be a trust that has to be regained to some extent, it looked that way at the end to me...that look in Deans eyes.... I dont know
you know...cliffhanger....well nothing I have ever ever seen compares to that scene where Dean is bloody and dying in the back of the impala, sam is driving and john is in the passenger seat - they are tryingt to get Dean to the hospital and ***BAM*** hit by a Semi!! I screamed!!!! I cant help it...its what sold me on this show
But I liked this episode...Dean is back....Sam seems to be....Bobby is alive....Ruby is dead and Castiel grew a pair ! Of course I liked it lol now if they would have just walked outside and seen that a semi hit lucifer while he was crossing the road! lol
Smith & Wesson : The original point and click interface
Re: Lucifer Rising - an end or beginning? May 19, 2009 11:31PM | Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 1,070 Status: "I punched that damn leprechaun back." |
Re: Lucifer Rising - an end or beginning? July 19, 2009 01:48PM | Admin Registered: 15 years ago Posts: 127 Status: |
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Blue
...I was dreading this finale because of what I knew had to happen...But I did take solace in the one scene where Dean iced Ruby with Sam's help. Made me think of the days when they were so single minded and coordinated in their actions/attacks. I miss those days...
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Mattie
My prediction:
Season 5 will open with Dean and Sam unconscious on the floor, Castiel standing over them, trying to revive them, and Lucifer GONE. Nowhere in sight. So the Season 5 mytharc will be the brothers, with the help of the now-rogue angel Castiel (who, thankfully won't be able to stay with them for any length of time because he's on the run) hunting down Lucifer in the same way their father hunted yellow eyes. Tracking down clues and killing every evil SOB they come across along the way. And the twist for the season will be little digs and hints that Lucifer, in fact, possessed one of the trio instead of fleeing the scene. Whether he did or not, will be left to the Season 5 finale. (and did I mention I've been RIGHT so far? )
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I was disappointed because I liked Castiel so much. I liked it that he liked Dean...yes I am talking earlier episodes here and he did step up which I was excited about but - and this is me- I fantasized him doing the right thing much earlier...thats just how I wanted it thats all. I suspect you are right and he will be the fourth player next season to Dean, Sam and Bobby - and I am ok with that.
But I liked this episode...Dean is back....Sam seems to be....Bobby is alive....Ruby is dead and Castiel grew a pair ! Of course I liked it lol now if they would have just walked outside and seen that a semi hit lucifer while he was crossing the road! lol
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